Mt 16:18 — Peter only the first Christian?--The error here is to ignore Christ who wrote nothing and established His Church

Aug 31, '13, 7:11 pm

TimothyH Senior Member   Join Date: March 26, 2010 Posts: 6,687

Re: Mt 16:18 — Peter only the first Christian? Quote: Originally Posted by Doug S You need to read Isiah 22:15-25 God was fed up with Shebna and threw him out of the land. He then instated Eliakim into authority, because he was honorable. Even still the people of that land were not an honorable people. Therefore he eventually destroyed them. As for the keys to the kingdom. Are there actually keys? It seem to be more logical to understand that the key to Gods kingdom were the appearing after Jesus resurrection. John 6:62 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? In this passage Jesus is saying this because they were killing some of the prophets and they will kill some of the apostles. Luke 11:52 52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered. Jesus Christ is the cornerstone on which the churches foundations rest. However the apostles are the foundation on which The church is built up. Revelation 21:14 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. It is a faith like the apostles that we should strive for, and there teachings are recorded according to Gods instruction in the scripture. I know that you have traditions and believe that there is more that we need to know. That is great until there is a conflict with the word of God. It is absolutely necessary that the word of God over rule any tradition. The Lord has given us the knowledge all we must do is put our Faith in him. May the peace of God be with you. Again, just as the study in the original post, you are ignoring social and political realities as they were in the Old Testament and at the time of Jesus. Every king had a prime minister. The prime minister literally held the key to the treasury and would make payments needed to get things done - pay soldiers in the army to fight, pay workmen to build cites and roads, etc. The prime minister had a title which I believe was "ol bith." I could be mistaken. It might be something like el ha biet. Whatever it was, it meant one who is over the house. Joseph is set over the house of Pharaoh in Genesis 41. And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is? And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, Forasmuch as God hath shewed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art: Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou. And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, See, I have set thee over all the land of Egypt. And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it upon Joseph's hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck; And he made him to ride in the second chariot which he had; and they cried before him, Bow the knee: and he made him ruler over all the land of Egypt. And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I am Pharaoh, and without thee shall no man lift up his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt. And Pharaoh called Joseph's name Zaphnathpaaneah; and he gave him to wife Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On. And Joseph went out over all the land of Egypt.(Genesis 41:38-45 RSV) Mordecai is set over the house of Haman and became the King's right-hand man. And the king took off his ring, which he had taken from Haman, and gave it unto Mordecai. And Esther set Mordecai over the house of Haman. And Mordecai went out from the presence of the king in royal apparel of blue and white, and with a great crown of gold, and with a garment of fine linen and purple: and the city of Shushan rejoiced and was glad. The Jews had light, and gladness, and joy, and honour. (Esther 8:2,15-16 KJV) For Mordecai the Jew was next unto king Ahasuerus, and great among the Jews, and accepted of the multitude of his brethren, seeking the wealth of his people, and speaking peace to all his seed. (Esther 10:2-3 KJV) This is the basis for Jesus' statement that he will give Peter the keys to the kingdom. Such would have been immediately recognizable as a political statement, as an appointing of a prime minister. Those who heard it would have understood it immediately as an appointment of Peter to the position of Prime Minister in the kingdom that was to come. The first step in understanding scripture is to understand the literal sense - what the heck the people were actually saying. Only when we correctly understand the literal sense can we begin to hope to understand the spiritual senses. That Jesus was appointing a prime minister would have been crystal clear to those who lived under monarchies and were used to such terminology. -Tim- __________________ “Let us live out and enjoy our adventure of Love, for we are in love, in love with God” - St. Josemaria Escriva

#11   Sep 1, '13, 2:18 am

Abu Regular Member   Join Date: March 8, 2008 Posts: 3,118 Religion: Catholic

Re: Mt 16:18 — Peter only the first Christian? Quote: Doug S #8 It is a faith like the apostles that we should strive for, and there teachings are recorded according to Gods instruction in the scripture. I know that you have traditions and believe that there is more that we need to know. That is great until there is a conflict with the word of God. It is absolutely necessary that the word of God over rule any tradition. The error here is to ignore Christ who wrote nothing and established His Church in, with and through His Apostles who then committed His teaching to Sacred Scripture which reveals that the primacy of Peter and the Bishops of Rome was recognised from the beginning of Christ’s Church and infallibility in doctrine was accepted from the beginning also – possessed by His Church – “He who hears you, hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.” (Lk 10:16). [See Mt 28:20; Jn 14:16-17, 26; Jn 16:13]. All four promises to Peter alone: "You are Peter and on this rock I will build My Church." (Mt 16:18) "The gates of hell will not prevail against it."(Mt 16:18) “I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven." ( Mt 16:19) "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven." (Mt 16:19) [Later also to the Twelve] Sole authority to Peter: "Strengthen your brethren." (Lk 22:32) "Feed My sheep."(Jn 21:17). Firmly and irrevocably given to us by the Sacred Scripture written by His followers in His Church. Having commissioned Peter as His first Vicar, Jesus instructed the eleven and proclaimed: “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations….teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you…” (Mt 28:18-20)